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Whether it's your first or fifth child, today’s guests are here to help! Every child has successes and challenges, and every family needs support, regardless of whether or not those families include members with special needs.
Tuning in, you’ll hear from Sonya Abegglen and Lynnelle King from the Family Seasons Postpartum Clinic, where they offer pre- and postnatal education, advanced lactation care, specialized bodywork, parenting resources, and – the topic of this episode – craniosacral therapy.
You’ll hear about their morning routines, how they like their eggs, and what their sensory quirks are before learning more about Family Seasons and craniosacral care, from a definition of the practice and its emotional components to whether or not it can be practiced at home and how it is different from seeing a chiropractor.
Sonya and Lynelle also share their biggest challenge and their advice for trusting your mom-gut and never giving up. Getting the word out about craniosacral therapy is important to them, so make sure to tune in today to find out more!
Key Points From This Episode:
Highlights:
“We work with restriction within tissue and fascia, muscular restriction, and we work to resolve those restrictions. Not just to move around, but we actually will go in and work with the tissue in certain pattern movements to resolve the restriction.” — Sonya Abegglen[0:15:40]
“Even though they are non-verbal, babies need to have the space to be able to invite you into their space. We’re very respectful of that. We don’t necessarily jump right into working with the baby. We’d want to wait for that invitation.” — Lynnelle King[0:19:37]
“Our job is to not push [anything] on people or to say, ‘If you do this, this, X, Y, and Z, you’re going to receive this result,’ because what we understand about the body is that we are all so unique.” — Sonya Abegglen[0:33:26]
“Advocate for your child, advocate for yourself, but trust that mama gut. It is so right on all the time.” — Lynnelle King[0:43:49]
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
Family Seasons Postpartum Clinic
Autism Awareness Month Giveaway
All Things Sensory on Instagram
All Things Sensory on Facebook
[00:00:00] RH: Hey, there. I’m Rachel.
[00:00:02] JH: And I’m Jessica, and this is All Things Sensory by Harkla. Together, we’re on a mission to help children, families, therapists, and educators live happy, healthy lives.
[00:00:11] RH: We dive in to all things sensory, special needs, occupational therapy, parenting, self-care, and so much more. In each episode, we share raw, honest, fun ideas and strategies for everyone to implement into daily life.
[00:00:24] JH: Thank you so much for joining us.
[00:00:29]: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to All Things Sensory by Harkla. You’re listening to Rachel and Jessica and this is Episode 148.
[00:00:37] JH: I think this is the first time that we have had two guests on the podcast at the same time.
[00:00:45] RH: Yeah.
[00:00:46] JH: So, today, we got to chat with Sonya and Lynnelle, and they are going to tell us all about craniosacral therapy. You’re going to love this conversation.
[00:00:57] RH: I learned so much, especially because I’m going through all of this with Trip right now. It’s just so near and dear to my heart that I hope that you can benefit from this conversation as well.
[00:01:10] JH: You will benefit from it. So, let’s go ahead and jump in.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:01:13] RH: Hey, everyone. Rachel and Jessica here, and we wanted to share some exciting news that we have here at Harkla.
[00:01:22] JH:April is Autism Awareness Month and we at Harkla are celebrating that because we are all about helping those with autism, as well as everyone else.
[00:01:32] RH: Everyone in between, yes. So, we’re hosting a giveaway that runs from April 1st to 18th and we are drawing daily winners for 13 days.
[00:01:43] JH: There will be a total of 16 winners because there is also going to be four prices on the last day. Now, different prices for these giveaways include a compression swing, or a weighted blanket, or a supplement.
[00:01:59] RH: And we’re giving away over $3,000 in winnings. How do you enter the giveaway?
[00:02:05] JH: All you have to do is go to harkla.co/giveaway.
[00:02:17] RH: Okay. Go enter, and good luck. We’re so excited! Morning, ladies. How are you today?
[00:02:26] SA: Doing good.
[00:02:27] LK: Fantastic. Thank you.
[00:02:29] JH: Super excited to have you guys here. We’re going to jump in to our interview questions or conversation but, first, we actually have five secret questions that we’re going to ask, so we’re going to start with those. You start so that you can do the secret questions.
[00:02:47] RH: Yes, okay. All right. So, who is one person alive or dead that you look up to?
[00:02:54] SA: That’s an easy one for me; my dad. He’s an amazing, amazing person and he’s been a huge inspiration. One of the most important people you’ll ever meat, so he’s a good guy.
[00:03:06] RH: Awesome.
[00:03:07] SA: I look up to him, for sure.
[00:03:09] LK: I would say, my grandma on my dad’s side. She’s phenomenal, she just passed away a couple of years ago and I still think about all the stories she told me growing up, so she’s been very influential to me.
[00:03:24] JH: So good.
[00:03:25] LK: That’s how my grandma was to me too.
[00:03:27] JH: All right. Briefly, can you tell us what your morning routines look like?
[00:03:33] SA: Oh my gosh! Are you serious? Are you sure you want to know this?
[00:03:36] RH: Yes.
[00:03:36] JH: Well, now. Now, yeah.
[00:03:41] SA: Do you want to go first?
[00:03:41] LK: Sure. I’ll go first.
[00:03:42] SA: Lynnelle is going to go first. This might take a while [inaudible 00:03:44].
[00:03:48] JH: Briefly.
[00:03:48] LK: We have a lot of children. It’s crazy. We’ll do the brief version. Brief version from Lynnelle.
[00:03:55] RH: There you go. Good idea.
[00:03:56] LK: The alarm goes off, and usually, I wake up about 15 minutes before my alarm, so that’s really fun. Not! I don’t know why that happens. It doesn’t matter what time I set it for too. It always happens that way.
[00:04:10] JH: Oh no.
[00:04:11] LK: Then, I’ll just kind of tap my husband, and we’ll get out of bed and I’ll come back and get ready for the day. Then we have to make the bed. I have like 3,000 pillows on the bed. It’s really important that we pick them up from where we’ve thrown them at each other the night before when we do family scriptures and prayers. Everybody is throwing pillows everywhere and then, in the morning, we have to recover. That’s [inaudible 0:04:35].
[00:04:40] RH: I love it.
[00:04:40] LK: All right, your turn.
[00:04:42] SA: So yeah, my alarm usually goes of by around five. I try to drag my, sorry lazy bum out of bed and wish I could still sleep. Usually, I head to the gym, come back, shower and get ready, then all the kiddos get up at 6:30, 6:45, right in there. I have six kids under the age of 12.
[00:05:02] JH: Whoa!
[00:05:03] SA: Yeah. So it’s this amazing dash, a total assembly line packing lunches, and then assembling — I have five girls in the mix. We line them up for hair, and they go do their own morning routine, which is their own set of five or six things that they have to get done. Then somewhere in the mix, we somehow get them all to school, and then I have to be the one that stays home with [inaudible 0:05:27]. We kind of focus on her and try to get her dressed. Clothing is good, bathing is good. We do all those pieces and then typically, work day, we’ll start around 8:00, 9:00 in there, and then the other days is all full and non-stop when I’m not working. There’s the morning routine.
[00:05:46] JH: That’s intense.
[00:05:47] RH: Sonya, you have some kids —
[00:05:48] SA: [Inaudible 00:05:49]
[00:05:50] RH: No.
[00:05:51] JH: No.
[00:05:52] RH: I’m curious though. So Sonya, you have six kids, Lynnelle, how many kids do you have?
[00:05:56] LK: I have eight.
[00:05:56] RH: Oh my gosh!
[00:05:57] JH: What? Oh my goodness!
[00:06:00] RH: Oh! Wow! You guys are amazing.
[00:06:02] SA: Thank you. We are a little bit crazy, but we kind of love it. We’re okay with each other, so —
[00:06:08] RH: I love it.
[00:06:10] JH: I have one and it drives me crazy.
[00:06:16] RH: Of course. I joke and tell my husband I want 17, but I don’t know if I can handle it.
[00:06:21] SA: Yeah, I know I couldn’t do 17. There’s definitely a max point, right?
[00:06:26] JH: Seventeen is the max.
[00:06:27] SA: Right.
[00:06:28] RH: Yeah, no kidding.
[00:06:30] SA: If I didn’t have to do the pregnancies, maybe. That’s my max point. The kids are awesome and there are so many good points when they grow up but, oh, no, the pregnancies? Do not sign me up for that.
[00:06:41] JH: Oh no.
[00:06:42] RH: That’s tough.
[00:06:43] JH: So funny. Okay.
[00:06:46] RH: All right. So, would you rather hang from monkey bars for three hours or hula-hoop for three hours?
[00:06:54] SA: Oh my gosh! Oh my goodness sakes. I think I would rather die.
[00:07:06] RH: Aren’t you happy you came on our podcast?
[00:07:09] SA: Yeah, this is fabulous.
[00:07:10] RH: So fun. What would you rather do, Sonya?
[00:07:14] SA: I’m going to go with hanging in the monkey bars for few hours, because I figure I could alternate between my legs and arms.
[00:07:20] JH: Oh!
[00:07:21] RH: There you go.
[00:07:22] SA: I’m horrible hula-hooper. World’s worst, like by far. My kids laugh. It’s their comedy of the day when I tried hula-hoop, so we’ll go with monkey bars.
[00:07:30] JH: There you go.
[00:07:31] LK: I would totally go with the hula-hoop because I would be laughing myself to death. I think it would be so hilarious.
[00:07:39] JH: I think that’s great.
[00:07:39] RH: Oh, good answers. Good answers.
[00:07:43] JH: Okay. So this question came from the fact that Rachel was eating eggs this morning, and I’m typing up the secret questions and I was like, “Oh, okay.” The question is. How do you cook your eggs?
[00:07:56] SA: Oh! This one is great.
[00:07:59] LK: Yeah.
[00:07:59] SA: Go for it.
[00:07:59] LK: Okay. We have 20 chickens, so we get about 18 to 20 eggs a day.
[00:08:04] RH: What?
[00:08:05] LK: Eggs are a big part of our life.
[00:08:09] JH: I love it.
[00:08:09] LK: It is a thing, right? You guys have chickens?
[00:08:12] SA: Mine totally do too.
[00:08:14] RH: Oh my God!
[00:08:13] JH: You guys are just like the same person.
[00:08:15] SA: We only have 12, because we have less kids, so we didn’t need 20. So, we just go with the lower number. Yeah, eggs are big on our house. Eggs are a big deal.
[Crosstalk 00:08:23]
[00:08:25] LK: I know, me too!
[00:08:26] SA: It’s a cheap way to feed all these kids.
[00:08:28] JH: Seriously.
[00:08:28] SA: Oh my God!
[00:08:32] LK: So, at our house, if we’re doing eggs – because I have seven boys and one girl, and right now, they’re all kind of older young adults and teenagers so, if we’re having eggs, then we also have to have bacon. There is this thing that has to happen at our house, because oh, my gosh! The bacon thing at our house is ridiculous. But I will tell you that to get a really nice lovely, fluffy, scrambled eggs, if you add a little water instead of milk, which I only learned about four years ago, it makes them super fluffy and yummy, yummy, yummy.
[Crosstalk 00:09:06]
[00:09:09] LK: It’s a good tip. If you want those fluffy scrambled eggs, that’s how you do it. I love it.
[00:09:14] SA:So,p we have eggs in our house, technically they’re called over easy, but we call them poppy eggs in our house, and we eat them over toast, and we have to mash it up [inaudible 00:09:23] right on the toast for all the kids to eat them. But that’s [inaudible 00:09:26] on how we do, like little bit of coconut oil in the pan, fry that baby up both sides, slap it on a piece of toast. It’s delish.
[00:09:32] JH: I love it.
[00:09:33] RH: With avocado.
[00:09:34] SA: Oh, yeah! That’s really [inaudible 00:09:36].
[00:09:37] RH: You guys have such good routines. It’s awesome. I did this picture, you guys lining up all your kids, throwing the eggs off the pan, it lands on their plate, on their toast. Like I can just see a whole comedy skit right now.
[00:09:49] JH: Exactly.
[00:09:52] SA: You probably have a pretty accurate image in your head, to be honest.
[00:09:55] JH: Good.
[00:09:55] SA: [inaudible 00:09:57]
[00:09:58] JH: I think that’s great.
[00:10:00] RH:It slaps them in the face once in a while.
[00:10:02] JH: I think it’s great.
[00:10:05] RH: Well, it’s so fun.
[00:10:07] JH: Perfect. Okay. One more.
[00:10:08] RH: Okay. This is our favorite question of all because you guys are on a sensory podcast. What are your sensory quirks?
[00:10:17] SA: Oh! This is a good question. Okay. I would say sensory quirks are, I really hate it if my hair is not parted right where I usually part it. Right? And I can feel it. So, if it’s like a little to the right or a little to the left, it like drives me nuts, and I would literally have to redo it. I really don’t like if I part it in the wrong spot. But I know where it’s at, so usually we’re pretty good. Because I’ve got to kind of narrow it down, like this is the bar and it probably will be until the day I die.
[00:10:46] RH: So you’re not going to conform to the middle part?
[00:10:49] JH: Oh my gosh!
[00:10:50] SA: No. No.
[00:10:53] JH: I can’t do that either.
[00:10:53] SA: [inaudible 00:10:53] but the hair to conform to any. [Crosstalk 00:10:56] So there’s my sensory feedback, [00:11:01]
[00:11:03] LK: I think my sensory thing is, if my teeth aren’t brush before bed, I cannot sleep. Ugh! I can’t handle it. [Crosstalk 00:11:11]
[00:11:13] JH: Oh, that is gross though.
[00:11:15] RH: It’s not a good feeling.
[00:11:17] JH: No.
[00:11:18] LK: It’s not a good feeling. First thing in the morning, first thing at night, they’re getting done.
[00:11:22] JH: Perfect.
[00:11:23] SA: We work with a lot of kiddos and babies mouth, so you know like the importance of having a clean mouth. At least you know, she’s got top notch oral care.
[00:11:33] JH: That’s fair.
[00:11:34] RH: But, now that everyone is wearing masks, no one can see.
[00:11:37] SA: That’s true.
[00:11:38] RH: I’m just kidding. That’s so gross.
[00:11:41] JH: I know. I’m like thinking of all the people who aren’t brushing all their teeth now.
[00:11:45] LK: Yeah, that’s kind of a disturbing thought.
[00:11:47] JH: Oh! I don’t like that.
[00:11:49] RH: I’m sorry. Just rewind. Cut that out.
[00:11:51] JH: Oh! I don’t like that.
[00:11:51] LK: We call it sensory issues now, like, really?
[00:11:55] SA: Although it protects you if you have a smoothie, because you can have those little pieces of raspberry in your teeth.
[00:12:02] RH: That’s true.
[00:12:03] LK: [inaudible 00:12:03] whatever they have in their granola [inaudible 00:12:07].
[00:12:11] JH: Oh my gosh! I’m so hungry now.
[00:12:13] RH: I want chickens, I want [inaudible 00:12:14], I want eggs.
[Crosstalk 00:12:18]
[00:12:19] JH: We’re going to. All right. Let’s dive into the good stuff. I mean, that stuff is pretty good too, but –
[00:12:26] RH: It was pretty good this time.
[00:12:27] JH: But can you tell our listeners who you are and what you do.
[00:12:33] LK: I’m Lynnelle King. I am an IBCLC and a lactation consultant, and I’m a craniosacral therapist. So, I work primarily with pediatrics. I see moms and babies all day long, and spiced with a few toddlers and primary-aged children and some teenagers. I see zero through 18 primarily. Then also, I will see mamas who are pregnant for craniosacral therapy as well. It’s a lovely, lovely job. I highly recommend it to everybody who has any interest in mother-baby care. It’s just delicious.
[00:13:15] SA: It is. It’s true. It’s amazing. We kind of probably just sound like we’re marrying each other here, because I just want to be like Lynnelle when I grow up. So –
[00:13:24] JH: Oh my goodness!
[00:13:26] SA: Same thing. I’m a craniosacral therapist. We both treat peds like she said. I see a lot of adults right now as I’m trying to finish up my student hours to become an IBCLC. So looking forward to transitioning a little bit more into the pediatric world. But see lots of moms, lots of dads, lots of teenagers.
[00:13:46] LK: We also teach parenting.
[00:13:48] SA: Yeah, we do.
[00:13:49] LK: We teach positive discipline parenting classes.
[00:13:52] SA:Yeah. We’re both certified positive discipline teachers, so we teach a class or two. We have to know what we’re doing though with all of our kids, so it really was more of like, for me, it was survival to get into that.
[00:14:04] LK: It was, oh, 100%.
[00:14:04] SA: Like I got to figure this out better, but love it. That’s kind of a snapshot. I think I didn’t say my name. I’m Sonya [inaudible 00:14:11].
[00:14:13] JH: Perfect.
[00:14:13] RH: I just have to say, all of this is so near and dear to my heart right now because I have a six-month-old, I’ve been working with an IBCLC. We just got his tongue-tie, lip-tie released. I’m going to see a craniosacral therapist and I know you guys, when I got this scheduled, this one came at me. But it’s like, it’s so relative for me right now, so I’m hoping that we have listeners who are in the same shoes as me, and who can really take this and benefit from this.
[00:14:38] SA: Yeah, it’s huge and we do. The tongue-tie thing, and the therapy before and after, Lynnelle does way more of that than I am right now, but I’m getting more to that too, and it is a huge piece. So yeah, kudos to you because you’ve been through a lot. We can both tell you that right now.
[00:14:53] RH: Yeah, definitely.
[00:14:56] JH: Can you explain what craniosacral therapy is? Because I feel like it’s not something that really anybody knows about.
[00:15:04] SA: A secret.
[00:15:05] JH: It’s like a secret.
[00:15:06] SA: I know. I believe my first words when someone told me is like, “That sounds like voodoo, so tell me more?” That really was my first impression. Craniosacral therapy is like a light touch manipulation therapy. It’s very gentle, it’s very safe, effective. We basically use it for two reasons. One, anything we do with craniosacral therapy initiates a response from the parasympathetic nervous system, which is that lovely piece of us that helps us to be calm, and we love all those calm, non-stressing feelings, right? It does that.
Second, we work with restriction within tissue and fascia, muscular restriction, and we work to resolve those restrictions. Not just to move around or whatever, but we actually will go in and work with the tissue in certain pattern movements to resolve the restriction. What that does is kind of twofold in the body too. It’s one, it feels amazing and obviously very calming, but it also gets rid of compensation that the body is using in an unhealthy way. We see a lot of indirect effects from that piece alone. I’m just getting rid of some of that compensation. It’s like this huge energy jump to the body to then go in and do what it does best, which is heal and fix things on its own.
[00:16:21] JH: Wow!
[00:16:22] SA: There’s kind of a twofold answer there in my opinion.
[00:16:26] LK: Yeah, for sure. I would say that another component to craniosacral therapy is the emotional component that can happen to support healing in our bodies. Sometimes when someone is working through a tissue trauma that happened during an emotional time, something like that. We see this even in infants through adults, at any age, there can be an emotional release that happens that will then help the body clear, help the mind clear, help you move forward in a new and better way. It’s pretty awesome.
[00:17:01] SA: It is and it’s crazy because that emotional piece, I feel like there’s a lot of more awareness about those emotional pieces and how they affect the physical body in recent years. But when you do what we do all day long, that connection could not be more clear or more real to me. It is there, it exists and it is a huge piece of the people’s feelings because we all go through things that are hard. So, we’re both also trained in what is called somato-emotional release and they combine it with craniosacral therapy. It’s a piece of craniosacral therapy that we do. We have pretty [00:17:35], especially with these little babies.
[00:17:37] RH: Is it like a portion of trauma-informed care? Does it like help heal trauma in a way? I’m feeling like if I were to get a session done, will I just start crying from like —
[00:17:47] JH: I feel like I would.
[00:17:49] RH: — all of the tensions I’m holding? Not to make light of it, but is that —
[00:17:53] LK: We see emotion all over the board. So crying, or laughing, or anger, or something that might need to just be expressed. If we were to put our hands on you and do a session with you, have a session with you, there may or may not be an emotional release. It’s whether or not the body is ready and it’s definitely not, you don’t come in expecting to cry.
[00:18:14] SA: It’s true. What’s very cool of what we do is, when we’re trained, the body gives a distinct signal and there’s emotion residing in that tissue that needs to be resolved, so it actually kind of takes a different treatment direction when that prompt kind of comes up. It is very cool because you are very much working on somebody else’s own treatment plan within their body, so we just follow those cues as they’re given.
[00:18:39] JH: So interesting. Can you kind of run us through what a typical session looks like? Or they are all so different? I don’t know.
[00:18:51] RH: Like, if you were to be working with my six-month old, let’s use him as an example. He just had a lounge tie, lip-tie release, what would a session look like with kind of a busy little boy?
[00:19:00] LK: Sure. A six-month-old, I would expect that little person to come in, hopefully fed so that we can have a moment before they realize they need to eat again, which will be maybe in 30 seconds, maybe after the session. But I would hold that little person on my lap and just kind of get to know your six-month-old a little bit. We’d spend some time talking to each other, just getting to know each other a little bit as someone who would be hopefully invited into his or her space to work with them. “Hello! How are you? I’m so excited to see you here today.”
Even though they are non-verbal, babies need to have the space to be able to invite you into their space. We’re very respectful of that. We don’t necessarily jump right in to working with the baby. We’d want to wait for that invitation. You know, you can just kind of feel it with little babies, so finally like, “Okay! They’re ready for a new person in their world.”
Then typically, with a six-month-old, I would either hold them in my lap, or hold them on a treatment table and kind of start feeling their bodies. I put one hand on one side at their back, and for example, in one side on the thoracic area of their chest, and just kind of get a sense of how that craniosacral rhythm is doing for that little person. Then if we’re treating for a tie restriction, I would want to check then the whole body from head to toe, if there’s restriction in the body, somewhere along the line and then treat that, and then go ahead and work, potentially, most likely in the baby’s mouth.
When there’s been a restriction that’s been released, there is most likely [inaudible 00:20:46] tissue next to that restriction, that needs to be softened so that there’s full mobility available for that little person. That one kind of look the same in every age if we were treating something like that. Do you have anything to say about –?
[00:21:03] SA: Yeah. I would just say like during that process, I think one component that I love is, there is a connection we try to establish with the baby. Then, as we work, we really try to establish that with the mom too, because moms and babies are so inseparably connected. It’s just a fact. Hearing what mom’s experiencing and what mom thinks is going on with baby for me is a huge piece, because moms have really good mom guts, right? They know their babies, they’re with them, they care the most.
I feel that that’s another huge piece that we will always involve. While we’re working on that baby, we’ve kind of gotten that invite and we’re working on that listen person, we always touch base with mom and try to add those pieces of her wisdom into that treatment, so it kind of makes this lovely, little circle of life.
[00:21:57] LK: It is. Really, because we’re a postpartum clinic, dad’s are often involved, fathers are often involved, partners are often involved, however that looks in that family structure. We’re really, really open if people want a family session, to kind of help that connection or help process some of the difficulties that might have happen during a postpartum season that we can offer that as well.
[00:22:24] JH: That kind of leads to my next question. Can families carry over into the home? Do you show them these techniques and how to do it at home?
[00:22:34] SA: That’s a great question. So, on some levels, yes. Like we have a lot of exercises, especially if we’re referring back to your six-month-old who just had a revision. There’s a lot of home exercises and home care that we will send home and it’s needed to make sure that person really fully recovers. There has been sometimes where I will show a mom or a dad a basic technique, especially if we’re going to be talking sensory stuff. That’s where I feel that I use that the most as far as actually trying to teach a cranial technique, because of it’s calming effect.
Sometimes that’s really helpful for parents to have one more tool in their toolbelt when you’re dealing with that high sensory need to be able to help them calm is a huge thing. Right? I mean, anyone who knows anything about these sensory processing, disorders, the ability to have anything that would be helpful to calm and to bring some sort of sense of that for that child is huge. I would say, that’s honestly where I use that the most, is like this actual teaching of the cranial technique.
[00:23:36] RH Yeah.
[00:23:38] LK: And anyone can learn.
[00:23:38] SA: It’s not voodoo.
[00:23:42] LK: It’s not reserved for voodoo people.
[00:23:44] SA: No. It’s not some energetic, or like, it is very much based on structure, functioning, human anatomy, and physiology, and there is this beautiful piece of just this huge science piece that comes into play. The rhythm is something that is real, it’s something that is studied. It is not voodoo, but yes, anyone can learn and it is a lovely therapy.
[00:24:04] RH: Okay. I had someone ask me – it was my mom because I told her about craniosacral and that we’re interviewing you guys. She was like, “What the difference between chiropractic care for little ones and craniosacral?” Can you kind of describe what the difference is for that one?
[00:24:21] LK: Yeah, for sure.
[00:24:21] SA: Totally. Yeah, I love this question. Go for it.
[00:24:25] LK: Go ahead. Go ahead.
[00:24:28] SA: There is a huge difference it, because chiropractic tends to focus more on the bone structure, right? They go in and they want to adjust your bone structure. We want to put that in place. The reality of our body, the way it works though, which chiropractors and us are totally on the same page with this, we really are slaves to our soft tissue.
For example, if we’re talking like your mid-back and you have like a huge balled up tissue to the right-hand side and it’s pulling on your spine, that spine is going to go out all day long, right? So when we go in and we release tissue, and we’re working with fascia, that tissue piece, and we can relieve the restriction. Then all of a sudden, that adjustment hold 10 times better, because we really are slave to what’s happening around that bone structure.
It is different because you walk in to a chiropractic office, expecting them to work with your tissue and your muscle structure. Some bring little pieces of that in for sure, but their main focus is to align the spine, align all the bones within the bodies. We are more of the soft tissue part of that, and working through the fascia, and all those pieces. Sometimes, bones move when we do that. That’s also reality, because sometimes if you release that restriction, all of a sudden, that bone is like, “Oh, yeah. Thank you. Now, I can go back to my place.” There is some bones with it involved, but that is not our direct approach. Whereas, a chiropractor will tell you that their direct approach is more on the bone structure.
[00:25:45] LK: Yeah. And I think that we definitely refer back and forth to chiropractors all the time, because that complementary work can just help speed or help keep a release really, really nicely structured. It’s really lovely. I think the one thing that we might do with bone structure different than a chiropractor is, that we really work with the bones of the head. We see a population of kiddos who are trying to avoid being put in a helmet for example, or kiddos who are coming out of the helmet, or who want care along with a helmet use. Definitely for those little kiddos who have plagiocephaly, those are large population of who we see. We will help move the soft tissue and actually the structure of the head.
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[INTERVIEW CONTINUES]
[00:27:57] JH: Then kind of going back to where you’re talking about the differences between chiropractic care, what about like massage therapy? What that made me think of was similarities between what you do and massage therapy?
[00:28:10] LK: Can I have you do an experiment together really quick?
[00:28:12] RH: Yes, I love experiments.
[00:28:14] JH: And I hate them. Like no, I don’t want to be involved.
[00:28:18] LK: Follow Sonya and I. Put your hand up to each other, so you’re holding hands vertically like that, and then push out each other’s hands. Do you see how you kind of want to push back against that pushing? So, that would be like a massage. You’re getting deep into that tissue. Now, I want you to put your hand up and just meet the tissue, just gently. Then one of you decide who’s going to be the leader. I want you to just very gently move that tissue and the other person just gets to follow. Just super, super, super soft. Now, can you then make those gentle adjustments? You can take that person anywhere you want them to go and you don’t have to push them at all.
This kind of super, super — yeah. Isn’t that kind of fun?
[00:29:07] RH: I love it.
[00:29:08] LK: So craniosacral uses just a tiny bit of pressure. It’s about five grams or less. That’s like balancing a nickel in the back of your hand. Because there’s no tissue trying to resist against your touch, we can get movement that’s fantastic.
[00:29:28] SA:I love the description too of, like, I have a few massage therapists’ friends and we refer back there too a little bit. We always joke about like, “It’s not the elbow and the psoas.” We are like, “Oh my gosh!” [Inaudible 00:29:37] obtain response, right? There’s maybe time for that’s appropriate, but what I love about this is, we didn’t do such crazy deep tissue. Honestly, like layers, and layers down. Because when you work with the body that way, it’s just like that you felt with your hand.
All of a sudden, there’s no push back, there’s no pain response involved. The body almost welcomes that. It brings in you in further, and further, and you can actually treat this tissue where there is restriction way deep down, versus pushing on that, pushing like you’ll really never going to get there, is the honest truth, because you’re just going to get that push back and that pain response. I think pain response would be a thing that I would add to that, that makes cranial so lovely and different than massage therapy, because it is affecting the tissue and getting into the tissue completely differently.
[00:30:24] JH: Okay. All right. Perfect.
[00:30:26] RH: All good. Thanks.
[00:30:28] JH: Okay. So, then I have a question. If you get a kiddo to come in, how do you know when to like discharge them, when they’re done?
[00:30:36] SA: Totally. So, this varies depending on what we’re working with, right? Because we’re a therapy, there are times where you discharge them after only a few appointments because it’s resolved, like because working with restriction, a lot of times we can resolve it, and they’re kind of good and they let us know if something comes back. There are other things where they’re dealing with like a permanent issue, right? We’re not going to come in and necessarily heal that issue, so they may choose to come more often, because it’s effective at keeping them at a higher level of functioning. There’s a little bit of [inaudible 00:31:07].
For example, like tongue-tie, we don’t typically see that for very long after a revision. Because once that tissue is loosen, and once we’ve had that clipped and it’s resolved, then it’s usually a few appointments and then that goes usually good, and have outliers, always. But that for the most part, I would say it’s like a more typical treatment phase. But then you have, for example, maybe a sensory kiddo or something who deals with chronic depression and anxiety, and it’s more of a genetic thing, and they’re going to have that.
But we can get them functioning, let’s say, at a two and three, and we can improve their function to like a four, five, six, seven, or even better and we want to maintain that. They may choose to be more on a maintenance schedule to maintain that level of improvement that we’ve seen, because their condition is not necessarily going to go away, or we’re not going to permanently alter that. But we are a therapy, so we are really good therapy option for them to regularly see that improved function.
[00:32:03] LK:I think it’s important to know that we don’t ever put a schedule on someone, like you need to come for six sessions, or two sessions, or whatever that might look like. We always look at the body and discuss with the patient, “How do you feel like you’re doing with this? Call us if you need to come back in.” There’s no kind of obligatory like you’ve got to come in every month. There’s nothing like that. We both really strongly feel, especially in the case of pediatrics that that mom and that dad really guides treatment well. So, we really would like to continue to keep that line of communication open with parents of how are their kids doing.
Then you get this really sweet thing, where we get follow up phone calls, or pictures of kids who are just doing really well and parents are really grateful for that care that they got, and it’s just lovely.
[00:32:56] SA: Yeah, it is. I guess just to add to exactly what she’s saying is there’s this huge piece where, because we do what we do and we have worked with the body in the way that we have worked with the body on that non-resistant kind of therapy. We don’t want to initiate a pain response, or a pushback if you will. I feel like it’s really important to understand that we also just deal with people that way, right? People really should be in charge of their own healthcare, and we pay attention are our best doctors.
[00:33:24] JH: Yes.
[00:33:26] SA: Our job is to not push that on people or to say, “Well, if you do this, this, X, Y and Z, you’re going to receive this result” because what we understand about the body is that we are all so unique. To give someone that answer is really far-fetched in my opinion. It really varies person to person, body to body. We really try to instill that to people who maybe aren’t so confident about that, that they can be in charge of that, and that they do know. And when you feel well, recognize it. If you don’t feel well, recognize it. So, we really try to work with people I feel like the same way that our therapy teaches us to work with the body.
[00:34:01] LK: And to feel as if, when you have questions, you have a resource. So you have us on your back pocket. If you have a question, we really, really work our tails off to be available to our families.
[00:34:14] JH: I love all of that so much.
[00:34:16] RH: I have a question. I’m curious, for families, does insurance cover it? Is it private pay? In Idaho, we have like Katie Beckett, Medicaid. How’s payment covered for craniosacral?
[00:34:30] LK: Yeah. Great question. Yes. So as an IBCLC, I do contract with an insurance provider, who covers several insurances. So when someone calls me if they have a baby who needs to be seen for both lactation and craniosacral, I would then bill under coaptation and they get the bonus of cranial at their appointments. Craniosacral therapy is not billable right now for insurance in any other way. So, for us, other people can bill it under physical therapy. If you find someone who’s a physical therapist, they could then incorporate some craniosacral into their work. Also other osteopathic medicine doctors do practice craniosacral therapy, so of course, that would be available through them.
We’re cash pay, private pay, HSA, credit card, that’s our thing right now. But we also definitely see families, like we see you. If you have a need and then you also have a financial need, we’re super open to working with families.
[00:35:41] SA: Yeah. I will say one thing that’s really inspiring. I love working with Lynnelle for this reason, because a lot of people go into things for a lot of reasons. But the best reason in my opinion to do what you do is because you love it and your heart is in the right place. One thing I love and I appreciate working with Lynnelle is I feel like that is so present, and that both of us, our conversations revolving around especially the financial pieces are always about the person.
That it’s not — we do this for work, so obviously our families are eating off of it too, so there’s a space there. But we’ve had more than our fair share of free sessions, or longer sessions, and we’re happy to do that, especially when there’s a need. I just think it goes back to that.
We’re dealing with people here and people deserve to be treated as a person in their individual circumstances. That’s always evident when that’s a need.
[00:36:32] LK: Yeah, it is.
[00:36:35] SA: There’s of course that —
[00:36:34] LK: You just know.
[00:36:35] RH:Amazing.
[00:36:36] JH: I know. I was just thinking as you were talking about that, COTAs and occupational therapist could get trained in this and be able to incorporate into their practice too and just do more.
[00:36:45] SA: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:36:47] LK: Yup. It’s just another trick of the trade. It’s another something in your back pocket to offer families. We’re all about — gosh, there is so much room for people to gain more skill and to practice collaboratively. There’s no ownership over any kind of what we do. We want other people to have access to this care.
[00:37:09] JH: Yes.
[00:37:10] RH: Okay. Tell me how you get trained in craniosacral therapy. What is that process look like?
[00:37:17] LK: Yeah. Because I’ve had three of my kids start this training, like they love it.
[00:37:24] JH: What?
[00:37:25] LK: It’s so cool.
[00:37:26] SA: And I have two that have told me that that’s what they’re doing when they grow up.
[00:37:29] JH: Oh my God!
[00:37:30] SA: [Inaudible 00:37:30] and it is kind of addicting. Like we work on our kids, and they get treatment, and then they start doing it, and it’s this beautiful thing. We both got trained the same way, so we went through Upledger Institute. It’s a series of classes. In between those classes, you have a certain amount of physical hours that you have to sign off on.
[00:37:51] LK: And you have to have a healthcare degree and/or take certain college courses to then be able to qualify to even take the courses themselves. So, there’s definitely some pieces involved.
[00:38:03] JH: Yeah. Well, I think that’s good. I mean, you got to know yourself.
[00:38:09] RH: Yeah. You can’t just be a random person.
[00:38:09] SA: Well, yeah. Well, it’s kind of — well, not really a joke, but I just remember when I first started being like, “Man! I’m really glad I paid attention in all those anatomy and physiology classes, because there is this huge piece where if you don’t know what tissue you’re working on or what structure I’m even trying to move. I mean, there is an intricate, interlaced knowledge base that has to be present in order to be an effective craniosacral therapist. That I would say is, it’s your thing and you love that, this would be a great avenue. I mean luckily, we both really do love that. I mean, we’re definitely the nerdy –
[00:38:45] LK: We are totally. Oh my God!
[00:38:48] RH: That’s how we are too.
[00:38:50] SA: Yeah. We research articles in our spare time. That’s probably really embarrassing to admit. That’s okay. We really do like that. I feel like there’s a really heavy base in anatomy and physiology, and understanding the structure of the body. Because you cannot improve function if you do not understand the structure.
[00:39:07] RH: Definitely. It makes sense.
[00:39:10] JH: It’s huge. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay.
[00:39:12] RH: Yeah. I’m curious like what the biggest challenge is with what you do.
[00:39:18] SA: Hands down, it’s getting the message out. I want everybody to know about craniosacral therapy,
[00:39:23] JH: That’s why you’re here, because we do too.
[00:39:27] SA: [inaudible 00:39:26] the somato-emotional release part is so huge, so without delving to it. That has been a huge healing piece in my own life that I never anticipated to come in the form of this craniosacral therapy. It’s been huge for my children, it’s been huge for my family, it’s has been huge for my extended family. I love it because, for me and what’s brought into my life, how can you not share something that has been so life changing and altering in so many good ways? For me, that would be the biggest challenge. I hear people and I’m like, “Oh! I want to just put my hands on you.”
[00:39:59] JH: Like at the grocery store. You’re just at the grocery store.
[00:40:06] LK: Yeah, totally. Totally. Like you can see that little baby, he’s a little tort and you’re like, “Oh! Come here. Just give me five minutes. Five minutes.”
[00:40:14] JH: We do the same thing.
[00:40:17] SA: Yeah, it really is. I would say that really is the thing that always gets me the most at the end of the day, is just — it’s an amazing resource and like we said before, it’s not a solve-all, cure-all by any means, but it is a pretty beautiful therapy for a lot of things. What it does well for, it does really well for. So it’s hard to not see a lot of people in need and not just get that message out there in time, right? We own time. We’re moms.
[00:40:44] JH: With your billions of kids.
[00:40:44] LK: Right, exactly.
[00:40:47] SA: But we actually really love –
[00:40:49] LK: We’re like mommy, mommy’s, like we really love this part of life, and so it is, it’s a challenge but it’s a beautiful challenge.
[00:40:58] SA: It is. So if I didn’t need sleep, but my kids did, that would be ideal. And I can deal with them all day long, and work all night long and be so fine physically, that would be the ideal.
[00:41:07] RH: I would love that too, actually.
[00:41:11] SA: Right.
[00:41:11] RH: All right. So you guys are local to Idaho. We get you here with us. So if we have any local friends listening, how can they get in touch with you? How can they work with you and kind of just enjoy all that you offer?
[00:41:26] LK: Sure. We’re just in the process of rebuilding our website, because our offerings are changing a little bit. So, our new website iswww.family-seasons.com. We work as a family postpartum clinic, so we have several resources on there. Then, gosh, how can you get a hold of us? Just give us a call.
[00:41:53] SA: Right. Yeah. This sounds so funny, but texting works great. Because we were just talking about this before this interview, like once I go down under and I start appointments, I am not available for 12 hours.
[00:42:04] JH: Yeah.
[00:42:05] LK: Yeah.
[00:42:06] SA: I love text messages, just because I can see it, I can respond back a lot quicker [inaudible 00:42:11] than I can making phone calls. And I have noticed, there’s a bigger continuity of care, because most people also prefer to communicate that way. But we are also available by email, phone call, all of the good jazz. But I do like text messages because I feel like it helps me keep people like straight, I can like save their name, and I can like read back through what I said as we’re trying to keep track of all the people we see. I found that that’s a lovely thing. Like I said, when I go down under, I’m not available for 12 hours.
[00:42:37] JH: Down under.
[00:42:38] SA: So that can feel a little bit better for people too, like they got my message —
[00:42:43] LK: And if you call me, you’ll hear the message that says, “Please text me.”
[00:42:47] SA: [Inaudible 00:42:48]
[00:42:49] JH:That’s so funny.
[00:42:52] RH: Are you all in social media at all?
[00:42:54] LK: That part is coming in May. We have chosen not to be on social media. We are crazy busy, so we have never advertised, not one time. But we do feel like the information that we have is so worth getting out to the population, and so that piece is going to be on Instagram. So we’re going to definitely have that up and running, probably not so much on Facebook, but Instagram is definitely on our radar.
[00:43:20] JH: Perfect.
[00:43:21] RH: Well, let us know when that is up and running, and we’ll make sure we’ll give you guys a shoutout, so other people can hear your message.
[00:43:28] LK: Thank you.
[00:43:29] JH: So, before we finish up, can you give one piece of advice to our listeners. Like what’s your biggest thing that you want people to know or do?
[00:43:42] LK: Oh my gosh! I know mine for sure. It’s trust your mom gut. Trust, trust, trust your mom gut, advocate for your child, advocate for yourself, but trust that mama gut. It is so right on all the time. Even if you question it, find someone in your circle who can tell you “trust your mom gut.” You can read up, you can hear from all the experts in the world, and you may have a little feeling that tells you that I just wonder, I’m curious about. Those are things to absolutely pay attention to. No one is a better expert on yourself or your family than you. So, really, really pay attention to that, give space for that.
[00:44:27] JH: Yes.
[00:44:28] SA: Totally. I’m going to completely validate everything she just said, and then add one follow up piece to it because that would have been probably the same advice. Is that, don’t quit either. So, when you have that mom gut instinct, I cannot tell you the number of stories that we have come in, and there is this whole principle that if you really search it out, you’ll really find it, and to not quit, because sometimes, people are wrong, especially in this professional world. Things might be on someone else’s radar that aren’t on others, and people specialize whether they have that behind their credentials or not. We have certain things that we like or pay attention to better or whatever. So, don’t ever quit on that, just keep looking until you find some sort of answer to a piece, your question, or your curiosity or —
[00:45:18] RH: So good. Yes.
[00:45:18] JH: That’s great. I love all that advice.
[00:45:20] RH: You ladies are wonderful.
[00:45:22] JH: I like that you guys are basically the same person.
[00:45:26] LK: I know.
[00:45:28] SA: That’s kind of how I felt like when we met. I’m like, this is kind of surreal. Like how do you feel like so connected? [Inaudible 00:45:33], but I do. I love Lynnelle, she’s amazing, amazing practitioner and hands down amazing.
[00:45:37] LK: Yeah, right back. Right back. Right back at you, Sonya. It’s so fun. We just love our families so much, and we love the community family so much, and we just — be healthy and happy.
[00:45:53] RH: We can definitely see that. You guys have not stop smiling this whole interview, you are just so passionate and we can feel it and we hope that all of our listeners can feel it as well.
[00:46:03] LK: Thank you. You guys are lovely. We were just saying [inaudible 00:46:05] like, “They’re so cute.”
[00:46:07] SA: They’re such lovely people.
[00:46:10] LK: Seriously. Like cute is probably the wrong word. That sounds juvenile. We’re with kids all day long. I’m sorry. My word, sometimes I’m like, “Oh! I am an adult speaking to adults.” You guys are just awesome. Thank you so much for having us. What a pleasure to meet both of you and spend this little bit of time.
[00:46:25] JH: Yeah. Thank you for being here.
[00:46:27] RH: Thank you. Wow! I could hang out with those ladies all day long.
[00:46:32] JH: They’re so funny and it just cracks me up that they’re basically the same person with all their freaking kids.
[00:46:39] RH: Yes, and all their passion behind craniosacral. I learned so much from the two of them. I had a lot of burning questions about craniosacral and what it is, and how it works, and is it actually voodoo? Which, apparently is not.
[00:46:54] JH: No. I’m really excited to just get the word out about craniosacral and I want to go have a session with them. I have a feeling I’ll probably start crying. I think I would.
[00:47:04] RH: I probably would too. I feel like it’s just such a release.
[00:47:09] JH: Yeah. I need that release.
[00:47:10] RH: Yeah. Okay. We’re getting a bit dark on this episode, everyone.
[00:47:15] JH: I need it. All right. If you loved this episode let us know, leave us a review on iTunes, reach out on social media. We’re on Instagram at @allthingssensorypodcast and @harkla_family, so let’s us know that you listened.
[00:47:31] RH: Yeah. Take a screenshot and tag both of those accounts, all of our accounts. We would love just share with Sonya and Lynnelle that you all are listening to this episode.
[00:47:43] JH: And that you love them.
[00:47:44] RH: Yeah, as much as we do.
[00:47:45] JH:Because you know you do.
[00:47:47] RH: All right, friends. Thank you so much for spending your time with us and we will chat with you next week.
[00:47:52] JH: Okay. Bye.
[00:47:54] RH: Thank you so much for listening to All Things Sensory by Harkla. If you want more information on anything we mentioned in the show, head over to harkla.co/podcast to get all of the show notes.
[00:48:06] JH:We always have the show notes and links, plus full transcripts to make following along as easy as possible for everyone. If you have follow up questions, the best place to ask those is in the comments on the show notes or message us on our Instagram account, which is at @harkla_family. If you just search Harkla, you’ll find us.
[00:48:26] RH:Like we mentioned before, our podcast listeners get 10% off their first order at Harkla, whether it’s for one of our digital courses, one of our sensory swings, the discount code SENSORY will save you 10%. That code is S-E-N-S-O-R-Y. Head over to harkla.co/sensory to use that code right now so you don’t forget.
[00:48:48] JH:We’re so excited to work together to help create confident kids all over the world and work towards a happier healthier life.
[00:48:55] RH:All right. We’ll talk to you guys next week.
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