We received a question on Instagram about what sensory strategies we would recommend to help a child who has lower cognitive abilities or who is non-speaking or pre-verbal.
We’ve had many, many clients who had learning disabilities, used AAC devices because they didn’t communicate verbally, or who struggled overall with communication - expressive and receptive.
In this episode, we’re going to draw from our own personal experiences as well as research!
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Now today's topic is all about answering the question that we received on Instagram. And the question was, what sensory strategies we would recommend to help a child who has lower cognitive abilities or in nonspeaking?
These sensory tips are more helpful than just tips for Non-Verbal Sensory Processing Disorder since these sensory strategies work for all children.
As we always like to remind people, everyone has a sensory system. And making sure that the system is getting the right inputs at the right time is extremely important for improving mood, behavior, learning, and much more.
Let's first discuss cognitive and learning issues. Let's start with cognitive and learning impairments. Now we'll use several definitions from peer-reviewed studies, as well as some other online resources, which will all be linked in the show notes. Cognitive deficits, also known as intellectual disabilities, are a group of symptoms that begin in childhood and affect people's ability to learn and function properly.
The DSM five standards define intellectual disabilities as beginning in childhood and being characterized by difficulties with conceptual, social, and practical skills.
We've already mentioned a few, but there are a couple more that we'd like to go through in detail. The first one is deficits in intellectual functioning. So things like logical thinking, problem-solving, planning, abstract thought, judgment, academic learning, and learning from experience are all examples of it.
Executive functioning abilities are comparable. Deficits in adaptive functioning, severely limit a person's ability to conform to developmental and sociocultural standards for independent living and fulfillment of social obligations
And these articles also say that the terms mild, moderate, severe, and profound, have been used to describe the severity. But we feel like in today's culture, those terms are frowned upon. And the more that we are learning and unlearning things that using different terms to describe the person can be helpful.
In short, cognitive learning disabilities, intellectual disabilities, and learning deficits come from the brain. They are neurodevelopmental disorders that make it difficult to learn in school or pick up social skills. ADLs, or activities of daily living, can also be a challenge for those with these disorders.
Yep, we do have an episode on executive functioning skills, which falls right into this category. So that would be a good one, a good podcast for you to also listen to, that dives into these details a little bit more, for sure.
And let's move on and talk a little bit about children who are nonspeaking or pre-verbal. So most children who are not speaking will learn to communicate in some way, but it might not always be through spoken language, which is totally fine. It's important to remember that even though a child may not be able to speak their nonverbal communication, such as their body language, or facial expressions, writing or motioning is still communication.
And also remember that their receptive language skills, which is their ability to understand what's being said to them, or around them, those skills might be at age level, even if their expressive language skills or not.
So the term pre-verbal communication describes a group of social communication behaviors that are used to send an intentional or purposeful message to a partner, rather than being verbal. So things like words or word combinations, pre-verbal communication consists of some combination of Eye Gaze, Gesture, or vocalization.
It's essential to keep in mind that children who don't communicate verbally frequently have the same problems as kids with intellectual disabilities. This is not always true, but it does happen often enough that we need to be aware of it. The reason this occurs is oftentimes that those around them can't comprehend what the child is trying to say.
So, if you have a kid of your own, or if you're a therapist and are working with a child who fits into any of these categories, we've utilized these approaches and suggest them to assist kids to work on communication skills, self-control, sensory processing, and other areas.
Our favorite tool that we use and recommend to others is a visual schedule. It's easy to follow and simple to use, which comes in handy for us as parents too! Plus, our kids always enjoy using them because they can see what activities are coming up next.
And then having pictures of tasks and activities allows the child to show you what they want, as well as helps with sequencing memory and attention skills. So not only understanding what's next and what's coming up but also again, those executive functioning skills of sequencing and problem solving and then emotional regulation because if they want to do a certain task, they can see where it is on their visual schedule.
And you can help work them through if they're getting upset because they're not doing the activity that they want. We can show them it's coming but first, we're going to do our sensory diet.
Vestibular input is the second element. According to studies, vestibular stimulation may enhance verbal communication in my favorite sensory system, the vestibular system. This is really intriguing and something I have seen firsthand in practice.
Several studies have shown that vestibular stimulation can improve learning by activating certain parts of the brain and preparing the child's muscles for learning and communication.
After that, we've compiled a list of some of our personal favorite vestibular activities for these youngsters. Swinging while reciting the ABCs is one example, as is asking them to request more or all done once the song has ended. Counting before swinging may be tried. So, for example, saying "123" and then assisting the youngster in communicating go would be helpful.
Another is swinging and throwing at a target. So, in whatever swing type you're using, whether it's a playground swing, compression, swing, pod swing platform swinging apparatus whatever you have, include stuffed animals or beanbags or crumpled papers in the swings with your child to throw the red bag or tire Tiger and toss it to a goal are all examples of this.
So the target, you know distance will vary depending on the child right and they're, you know, hand eye coordination, their force modulation so make sure you set them up for success with this activity. Make sure you are swinging them in different directions, maybe include a little bit of spinning or rotary input as well. And then we always recommend following up vestibular activities with a little bit of heavy work or deep pressure.
The next activity we'll do is a two to three-step obstacle course that all children can participate in. Go through the course with them, demonstrating each step along the way. Make sure to include a motivating factor at the end, like sour spray or a vibrating ball--something they really love. The obstacles can be things like balancing, jumping, or animal walks.
The first obstacle course will be a softball field, which has walls. The second one is a backyard track where we'll do the same activities before moving onto concrete or asphalt surfaces. They're fantastic for learning sequencing attention, and practice, and at our gym in particular we like doing obstacle courses because they are so much fun!
One other thing that we enjoy doing during obstacle courses is using a whiteboard and adding a visual countdown so that the kid knows when he's finished, similar to little check boxes or a visual timer. So give those plays a shot. We'll attach a YouTube video showing how to set up obstacle courses to this lesson. If possible, have the youngster repeat it two to three times, making it interesting while you do so.
If you're at a clinic, and you can do suspended obstacle courses, those are fantastic. Those are always my favorite. When doing obstacle courses with swings and suspended equipment, you're also receiving a lot of vestibular input. As a result, you're getting two for the price of one. You may also integrate plenty of vestibular input into non-suspended obstacle courses by performing animal walks, such as a bear walk in which the child's head is inverted.
You can include things like windmills, rolling and somersaulting jumping and smashing. So you may really utilize vestibular input into these optional sessions for that extra impact.
We also enjoy tactile input in our daily lives. So employing messier play activities to help, such as establishing rapport, as well as just overall tactile processing. However, when you may slide into the shaving cream and cover your entire body with it and have a wonderful time. So much tactile and olfactory input to deal with because many of it is very fragrant.
Use your imagination with tactile messy play activities. To give you an example, start at the table by playing with shaving cream, and then move on to other drawing activities using your feet instead of hands. Cover your entire body in shaving cream and have some fun!
Tactile play activities are fantastic, but messy tactile play activities are also useful for practicing spelling and math equations. So you may really incorporate learning into messy tactile play in a variety of ways, from simply matching letters to matching numbers to matching colors and shapes.
Another one that we adore is vibration. So there are a lot of gadgets available to provide the vibration. However, using vibration provides excellent tactile and proprioceptive input. As a result, it may be alerting for some children but relaxing for others. HoMedics offers a number of vibrating tools, including vibrating balls massagers that resemble vibrating helmets.
The full-body vibrating machine can be found at many gyms, but you can also get them on Amazon. They're tons of fun to use and very versatile; you can stand on them, do pushups or planks with your arms or feet on the machine. Vibration input is a great way to increase arousal levels in children while they play.
Yep. And those are really fun too.
Anything with a specific beginning and end can be classified as another activity. This was touched on briefly when discussing vestibular activities; you know, like singing or counting down during movement, then stopping once the child gives the signal. It's important to include start and stop components in your obstacle courses too. For example, have them jump three times then crash, balance for five seconds, swing and push off the wall five times
And the last of our suggestions is multi-sensory activities. So things that make use of more than one sense at once, as well as utilizing a metronome when doing so
The key is to pay attention. The element that makes a metronome unique is its tempo, or rhythm. So something like sitting across from your child or the client you're working with, and having the metronome set at 60 beats per minute, and clapping your hands together or high-fiving each other is great for passing around a beanbag.
For example, if you're playing hide-and-seek, come out from behind a door and have your child sit in the middle of it. That's an excellent spot for them to hide because there's plenty of room for other movement options. Plus make it more intense by sitting in the middle of it. Like one of those lycra tunnels, you know, are the lycra tubes that we sell on our Etsy shop. So, a little plug for that. But sitting inside eliminates this danger since children can't elope via this route. They're receiving more proprioceptive input as a result of being inside. I enjoy doing multi-sensory activities.'
And metronome activities are helpful because they provide a constant rhythm for whatever you're doing. And the consistent rhythm might be quite beneficial in terms of communication, expressive language, and learning, such as counting and singing songs.
And then you can also incorporate the metronome in and you can also incorporate the metronome into learning activities. So practicing spelling words, practicing math problems, and get, you know, multiple senses going.
Maybe you're tossing a ball against the wall and catching it on every other beat, while also spelling a word. So you may go crazy with this and make it part of an obstacle course, swinging, or anything else. You can really make this into something amazing by combining all of these ideas together and doing it on a regular basis to observe what benefits arise.
Hey, everyone, welcome back to all things sensory by Harkla. We are so happy you're here. I'm Rachel.
And I'm Jessica. And today we are going to answer a question that we received on Instagram. Also, if you hear any weird noises in the background, that is a baby that we have in the podcast studio with us. So just, you know, filter it out.
Yeah. So before we get started today, and talk about what we're going to talk about, we do want to remind you that we do have our two on one mentoring sessions now available. So if you are looking for two great people to chat with, get some feedback, some strategies, some help, we are here for you. And that is why we created our two on one mentoring program. But just a quick disclaimer, that is not ot services at all. It is just a quick mentoring session, it's 45 minutes long with some awesome tools in your back pocket immediately.
Yeah, our one on one mentoring is perfect for parents. We also think it's great for therapists we love chatting with fellow therapists about their caseload about some challenges they're facing and just brainstorming. That's really what this is a brainstorming session. And then after the video call, we put together all of the resources and recommendations and email them to you.
So if you're ready to sign up and chat with us, then head to the show notes and click the link there, and we will get something scheduled for you.
Now today's topic is all about answering the question that we received on Instagram. And the question was, what sensory strategies we would recommend to help a child who has lower cognitive abilities? Or is nonspeaking or pre verbal. Now, we're trying to be as socially conscious as possible, if that's the right terminology and not say nonverbal, but instead use the term non speaking or pre verbal, just to try to be more what's the word Rachel inclusive.
And yeah, because we know that nowadays, we just have to be careful with the things that we say, and especially for those kiddos who are pre verbal or non speaking at this time, we know that they understand so much more than they can verbally communicate. And so we need to keep that in mind. So we challenge all of you listening, as well to kind of change your verbiage. And just be more mindful of what you're saying and how you're saying, and so just so you know, we aren't trying to hurt anyone's feelings today. We hope that we don't hurt anyone's feelings, but we're just here having an open conversation. And, yeah, let's talk about it.
Well, also, I was going to mention to, you know, don't judge us too harshly if we slip up and say something in a different way. Because we're not perfect. We're humans.
So we're trying our best.
We're trying our best. So just bear with us. Let us do our thing. Take the information we're giving you and let's go.
Okay. So, first of all, we have had a ton of clients who have had learning disabilities, clients who have used AAC devices, because they didn't communicate verbally, and they've struggled with overall communication, both expressive and receptive. And so we're going to draw from our personal experiences, as well as research that we have found in our careers as occupational therapy assistants, to chat with you about what these cognitive and learning deficits look like, and then how you can really tap into helping these children and helping their sensory needs if they aren't communicating like we normally would see.
So let's first talk about cognitive and learning deficits. First, let's talk about cognitive and learning deficits. Now we're taking some definitions from some research articles, some different online resources and these will all be linked in the show notes. Let's first cognitive deficits, also called intellectual disabilities, is a condition beginning in childhood in which people show significant limitations in their ability to learn and function.
The DSM five defines intellectual disabilities as neurodevelopmental disorders that begin in childhood and are characterized by intellectual difficulties as well as difficulties in conceptual, social and practical areas of living. We will link the research articles that we got those from in the show notes, so you can check those out. But a couple more that we want to talk about, we want to break down these concepts a little bit more. The first one is deficits in intellectual functioning. So things like reasoning, problem solving, planning, abstract thinking, judgment, academic learning, and learning from experience.
That sounds just like executive functioning skills. Yes, right. Yes. deficits in adaptive functioning, that significantly hamper conforming to developmental and socio cultural standards for the individual's independence and ability to meet their social responsibility. That was a mouthful, I'm really proud of myself for getting through it. But basically, what we're saying there is challenges in the ability to complete social activities, social emotional skills, and all of those things in between the social components. Yep.
And these articles also say that the terms mild, moderate, severe and profound, have been used to describe the severity. But I feel like in today's culture, those terms are frowned upon. And the more that I am learning and unlearning things that using different terms to describe the person can be helpful.
So quick overview, cognitive learning disabilities, intellectual disabilities, learning deficits, however you want to call them, are originated in the brain. And they're, which means they're neurodevelopmental disorders, and basically cause difficulties with, you know, learning in school, social skills, and ADLs activities of daily living. Yep, we do have an episode on executive functioning skills, which falls right into this category. So that would be a good one, a good podcast for you to also listen to, that dives into these details a little bit more, for sure.
We'll link that in the shownotes as well. And let's move on and talk a little bit about children who are non speaking or pre verbal. So most children who are not speaking will learn to communicate in some way, but it might not always be through spoken language, which is totally fine. It's important to remember that even though a child may not be able to speak their nonverbal communication, such as their body language, or facial expressions, writing or motioning is still communication.
And also remember that their receptive language skills, which is their ability to understand what's being said to them, or around them, those skills might be at age level, even if their expressive language skills or not.
So the term pre verbal communication describes a group of social communication behaviors that are used to send an intentional or purposeful message to a partner, rather than being verbal. So things like words or word combinations, pre verbal communication consists of some combination of Eye Gaze, Gesture, or vocalization. And again, we'll link the articles that we're getting this information from, we just think that it's important to kind of have a baseline of the terms that we're going to be talking about when we share our strategies. Next,
it's also important to remember that oftentimes, our kiddos who are not communicating verbally, will struggle with some of the same challenges that children with intellectual disabilities struggle with, right? Not always. But because they aren't communicating verbally, oftentimes, these challenges do appear, because maybe those around them don't understand what they're trying to communicate. Right. Yeah. Especially, you know, in social situations, those are probably the biggest ones
for sure. Yeah. So if you have a child of your own, or if you're a therapist, and you're working with a child who falls into any of these categories, these are strategies that we have used and we recommend to help them work with communication, self regulations, sensory processing, and just overall like functioning.
Did you say executive functioning? I did not know. So also executive functioning. Yes, that's a big one. And the cool thing is that a lot of the strategies we're about to talk about are backed by research. So we were talking about this before we started recording that, we're going to try to continue to include more research into our podcast episodes since the field of occupational therapy is research based. And so, dive into all the research that we're giving you in the links in the show notes. I just
so fun to find articles that like back what we're doing, right? It's just so exciting to me. And honestly, I wish there were there were more articles, but maybe one day,
Some of its lacking. Yes. And the research articles that we're using in our episodes, we are making sure that they are current. So within the last couple of years, versus like old ones from the 90s. I can't believe old is the 90s. Now,
All right, let's jump into our strategies.
Yes. Okay. First one, this is our favorite tool is to use visuals, a visual schedule is like, literally the number one tool that we recommend for almost anything. We use them ourselves, we have our kids use them. Pictures are easy to follow, they're simple to use. And then having pictures of tasks and activities allows the child to show you what they want, as well as helps with sequencing memory and attention skills. So not only understanding what's next what's coming up, but also again, those executive functioning skills of sequencing and problem solving and then emotional regulation because if they want to do a certain task, they can see where it is on their visual schedule. And you can help work them through if they're getting upset because they're not doing the activity that they want. We can show them it's coming but first we're going to do our sensory diet or whatever.
We do have a free Visual Schedule Template that you can download. It will be linked in the show notes. It's on our freebies page. Number two is vestibular input. My personal favorite sensory system, vestibular system, studies have shown that vestibular stimulation may have a positive effect on verbal communication. This is really exciting. I truly believe this is true just from personal experience in clinic. Yeah. Some studies have also shown improvements in learning following vestibular stimulation. So that vestibular system really activates certain parts of the brain wakes up the muscles in the body and just prepares the person the child for learning and communication. Right. I challenge you
to hop on a swing and see how you feel afterwards. Do you feel more chatty? Do you feel like you just want to let out a squeal? Do you feel? Sorry? We'll just because when I was on the swing of it last I was like, oh, you know you just you want to let out of squeal. Okay, we'll yes we're squealing over here with the vestibular. A few of our favorite vestibular activities for these kiddos. The first one is swinging while singing a song like the ABCs stop after the song is ended and have the child request more or all done. You can try counting before swinging. So saying something like 123 and then helping the child to communicate go.
I will say that it does not matter if you have a crappy singing voice. I cannot carry a tune to save my life. But in clinic, it didn't matter. All the kids were so into singing while they were on a swing that it did not matter.
It was just her co workers that were bothered
at that point, okay. Another one is swinging and throwing to a target. So in whatever type of swing you have your child in whether it's a playground swing, compression, swing, pod swing platform swinging whatever you have, use stuffed animals or beanbags or crumpled pieces of paper, have those items in the swing with the child requests to have them maybe pick a specific one, like throw the red bag or throw the tire Tiger and throw it to a target. So the target, you know distance will vary depending on the child right and they're, you know, hand eye coordination, their force modulation so make sure you set them up for success with this activity. Make sure you are swinging them in different directions, maybe include a little bit of spinning or rotary input as well. And then we always recommend following up vestibular activities with a little bit of heavy work or deep pressure.
Yep, we've got a couple of research articles that explain this in more detail. If you want to check them out. They will be linked in the show notes. Our next activity that we love are just simple two to three Step obstacle courses. These can be done by all children and should be done by every child using the visual system to show them the sequence of the obstacle course walk them through the obstacle course, for full completion, and then include a motivating factor, something that the child really loves, like sour spray, or maybe a vibrating ball. include things like balancing jumping animal walks, and make sure that you are modeling right along with them. They're great for learning sequencing attention, practice, like you know that we love obstacle courses so much. One other thing that we like to do during obstacle courses is just using like a whiteboard and adding a visual countdown so the child knows when they're finished, just like little check boxes, or a visual timer. So try those activities. We will link a YouTube video that talks about how to set up obstacle courses. Have the child complete it maybe two to three times, if possible, and make it fun.
If you are in a clinic setting, and you can do suspended obstacle courses, those are awesome. Those are always my favorite. And you're getting a lot of vestibular input when you're doing obstacle courses with swings and suspended equipment. So you're getting you know two for one deal there. You can also incorporate a lot of vestibular input into non suspended obstacle courses, like doing animal walks such as a bear walk where the child's head gets inverted. You can incorporate things like windmills, or rolling and somersaulting jumping and crashing. So you can really include vestibular input into these optional courses for that added effect.
Another activity we really enjoy is tactile input. So using messy play activities to really facilitate, like building rapport, as well as just overall tactile processing. I remember back in the day, when we were in one of the clinics, we would do, like full on shaving cream day.
Oh, that was the worst week
of it, it was my all time favorite week. It was a lot of olfactory input that was kind of hard to process. But when you have mats and swings and garbage bags, and you can just slide in the shaving cream and draw in it and get your entire body just covered in shaving cream. It is so much fun. So much tactile input to process as well as olfactory input because a lot of it is very fragrant. But get creative with your tactile messy play activities. You know, start at the table with some shaving cream and then progress to doing drawing activities with your feet and shaving cream. And then get the entire body covered in shaving cream and run and slide on your tummy. Austin wants to try that I think she probably will. Um, so yes, tactile play activities are great,
messy tactile play activities are also great to practice spelling and math problems. So you can really incorporate that cognitive processing component, even just simply matching letters, matching numbers, matching colors, matching shapes, so you can get really creative to incorporate some learning into for messy tactile play. Yep.
Another one we love is vibration. So there are a ton of products that you can use to get that vibration. But using vibration has great tactile and proprioceptive input. So it really is often alerting for some kids but can be calming for other kids as well. So things like HoMedics has a lot of vibrating tools. They have vibrating balls massagers there are like vibrating helmets. I've found I think one is called. I need to write it down pure therapy. I don't know if they make it anymore, but that's an option.
Full Body vibrating machine. Yes, those are great.
Those are great. They used to have him at the gym. I remember seeing them at the gym. Yeah. And you can get them like from Amazon as well. Yep. And those are really fun too. You can stand on them. You can put your arms on them, you can do push ups on them, you can put your feet on them, doing a plank push up tons of fun ways to use those. So just getting creative with some vibration input and seeing what just like watching their arousal level like what happens when they are using that vibration.
Another activity is anything with a specific start and stop. So we talked about this briefly in the vestibular swinging activities to do you know a song or a countdown with the movement and then you stop and then when you're ready to go again you have the child communicate, when it's time to Though you count down, they count down, say go. And then you go again, or making sure that your obstacle courses include these start and stop components. So they jump three times and then crash, they balance for five seconds, they swing and push off the wall five times. So incorporating, counting and sequencing with a start and a stop is going to be really helpful for that language development as well as for the cognitive processing.
Yep. And the last one we want to recommend are multi sensory activities. So things that are combining multiple senses at once simultaneously, as well as using the metronome during these activities. So something like sitting across from your child or the client that you're working with, and having the metronome set at 60 beats per minute, and you're just clapping together or clapping your hands towards each other, like giving high fives, you are passing a beanbag around to each of your hands. And make it even more intense by sitting in. Like one of those lycra tunnels, you know, are the lycra tubes, we call them the happy hugs that we sell on our Etsy shop. So a little plug for that. But sitting inside of those, that way, the child can't elope that way. They're getting more proprioceptive input. Yeah, I love multi sensory activities.
Yeah, and metronome activities are great because it provides a consistent rhythm for whatever you're doing. And that consistent rhythm can be very regulating, it can be really helpful for communication, expressive communication and learning, you know, counting, singing songs, that kind of thing. And then you can also incorporate the metronome in and you can also incorporate the metronome into learning activities. So practicing spelling words, practicing math problems, and get, you know, multiple senses going. So maybe you are tossing a ball at the wall and catching it on every other beat, while simultaneously spelling a spelling word. So you can really get creative, incorporate these into obstacle courses, incorporate it into swinging, use a visual schedule, visual sequence and a visual timer. With it, you can really create a really great therapeutic activity with all of these suggestions and put them all together and do it on a consistent basis and see what improvements occur.
If you're not already following us on Instagram at all things sensory podcast, we highly recommend checking that out because we post activities and videos every week that you can try it with your child or with your clients. So head to Instagram, follow us. And then when you're trying these activities, tag us on Instagram as well, so we can share them with our community and just really promote the functional implementation of therapeutic activities.
And before we leave, you just want to remind you that every child's sensory system and development is on its own path, its own trajectory. So what works for one child will most likely not always work for the next child. It takes time trial and error consistency, to figure out what works and what doesn't and what doesn't work. So just keep that in mind.
Yeah. Okay, make sure that you check out our show notes. We have tons of research articles, products, everything that we talked about today is linked there. And if you have questions, don't hesitate to reach out. You can find us on Instagram, you can find firstname.lastname@example.org We're here to help you. And we hope this episode was fun.
All right, we will talk to you next week. I'm gonna redo that.
How I had to take these off. It's really kind of messing with my mind a little bit. Okay,
sorry, we're probably gonna have to pause because she definitely pulled out a diaper. Oh, no. Oh, do you want to pause the recording? Can you pause it?
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we are so excited to work together to help create competent kids all over the world. While we make every effort to share correct information, we're still learning.
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One doctor or therapist may have a different way of doing things from another.
We are simply presenting our views and opinions on how to address common sensory challenges, health related difficulties, and what we have found to be beneficial that will be as evidence based as possible.
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BORING, BUT NECESSARY LEGAL DISCLAIMERS
While we make every effort to share correct information, we are still learning. We will double check all of our facts but realize that medicine is a constantly changing science and art. One doctor / therapist may have a different way of doing things from another. We are simply presenting our views and opinions on how to address common sensory challenges, health related difficulties and what we have found to be beneficial that will be as evidenced based as possible. By listening to this podcast, you agree not to use this podcast as medical advice to treat any medical condition in either yourself or your children. Consult your child’s pediatrician/ therapist for any medical issues that he or she may be having. This entire disclaimer also applies to any guests or contributors to the podcast. Under no circumstances shall Rachel Harrington, Harkla, Jessica Hill, or any guests or contributors to the podcast, as well as any employees, associates, or affiliates of Harkla, be responsible for damages arising from use of the podcast.
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